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Installing Windows XP after Windows 7


20 replies to this topic

#11 marko

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    Posted 16 February 2012 - 10:40 PM

    View PostScottar, on 16 February 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

    First of all i would appreciate you getting my username right.
    Scottar, first of all you really need to appreciate that it's entirely possible to hit the wrong key now and again.

    View PostScottar, on 16 February 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

    2nd, I took it to an experienced engineer who was running a computer store. He told me when the BIOS chip is fried, it's fried. And trying to R&R is more expensive then just getting a replacement
    Secondly, you're talking to an experienced computer engineer and believe me, if I had a pound for everytime someone told me "something wasn't possible" I'd be rich - what happens is quite simple, the computer shop either can't be bothered dealing with something or they haven't a clue how to deal with something, so they make up a cock and bull story about "something not being possible" or "it would cost more than it was worth" - the reality is all they have to do is identify the BIOS manufacturer, go to their site and download the BIOS flash utility, stick it on a bootable USB floppy disk or USB drive and activate the program. In other words, your BIOS isn't "fried", it's "corrupt", and could have been fixed quite easily - personally, if I were you I'd think twice about using your "experienced engineer" again !!
    Please remember that we have people from many different timezones on the site and if your post requires a reply it could take longer at some at some points because of this.

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    #12 James (Jim) Hillier

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      Posted 16 February 2012 - 10:44 PM

      Quote

      First of all i would appreciate you getting my username right.
      Hmm, somebody got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning. Have you ever heard of a typo Scottar? Here are a few examples, taken from your own posts in this topic.

      "I let it run for a couple of minuets" - I hope it made some nice music for you. :)

      "most computershops will no deal in R&R" - I think you meant 'not' deal.

      "becuase as I just told Marko" - because, not becuase.

      We are all guilty of typos Scottar, unfortunate that it happened with your username but hey, typos are accidents, nothing personal.

      BTW: Your 'experienced' computer engineer is either totally misinformed or extremely lazy. Re-flashing the BIOS is eminently possible and not that difficult.

      Cheers...Jim
      Jim Hillier - Managing editor Daves Computer Tips.com

      #13 Scottar

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        Posted 17 February 2012 - 05:57 AM

        OK Marko

        Scottar, first of all you really need to appreciate that it's entirely possible to hit the wrong key now and again.

        It would be nice if you had a reply button to prevent mistakes like that but no biggie. :bye:

        #14 Scottar

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          Posted 17 February 2012 - 06:15 AM

          View Postmarko, on 16 February 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:



          Secondly, you're talking to an experienced computer engineer and believe me, if I had a pound for everytime someone told me "something wasn't possible" I'd be rich - what happens is quite simple, the computer shop either can't be bothered dealing with something or they haven't a clue how to deal with something, so they make up a cock and bull story about "something not being possible" or "it would cost more than it was worth" - the reality is all they have to do is identify the BIOS manufacturer, go to their site and download the BIOS flash utility, stick it on a bootable USB floppy disk or USB drive and activate the program. In other words, your BIOS isn't "fried", it's "corrupt", and could have been fixed quite easily - personally, if I were you I'd think twice about using your "experienced engineer" again !!

          But if the computer can't access the outside world due to a corupt BIOS how can the BIOS be upgraded. BIOS, if i'm not mistaken, stands for Built in Operating System. It tells the CPU what's hanging out there on the system. Therefore you either have to install a new BIOS chip or pull the old one out and reburn it.

          Since all of the chips on laptops are SMT it take special expertice to do it. And the most experience shop told me they would just order a new motherboard if posible or R&R the motherboard from the factory. since they would charge me a $25 fee just to look at it I opted out of that as the computer was already obsolete and out of production. That means an aftermarket source. So I just played it safe as I had very limited funds to work with at the time.

          If I can get a motherboard replacement when i get into some money I may try to replace the board myself or I may just look at a new system that is more powerful and pleasing then the current one. I may even look at a high speed internet option so I don't have to fool with dialup. One of the bugabos I detest about the newer Windows OSes is the connect icon which doesn't tell me weather it's actively downloading like the XP OS did. I'm still looking at system tweakers for Vista and Win-7 if I get a new system with it installed.

          But I have things ahead of that desire involving home repairs and clothing and a digital TV set. I never bothered getting a converter box for the old analog set, not worht it. So right now I'm not too social due to economic conditions.

          But my fantasy is that Amigo would come back and they would have uptodate systems. That was a computer ahead of it's time. :pardon:

          #15 Scottar

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            Posted 17 February 2012 - 06:31 AM

            View PostJames (Jim) Hillier, on 16 February 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

            Hmm, somebody got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning. Have you ever heard of a typo Scottar? Here are a few examples, taken from your own posts in this topic.

            "I let it run for a couple of minuets" - I hope it made some nice music for you. :)

            "most computershops will no deal in R&R" - I think you meant 'not' deal.

            "becuase as I just told Marko" - because, not becuase.

            We are all guilty of typos Scottar, unfortunate that it happened with your username but hey, typos are accidents, nothing personal.

            BTW: Your 'experienced' computer engineer is either totally misinformed or extremely lazy. Re-flashing the BIOS is eminently possible and not that difficult.

            Cheers...Jim

            See my replay to Marco about difficulty removing SMT chips which most computer shops shy away from. And Engineers usually depend of SMT assembly techs to do that in a factory environment. How do you program a BIOS chip that's completely corrupted and on a SMT board without removing it? The system can't access it cause it can't boot! This was a systems engineer.

            And as for typos. I wish Marco could upgrade the system so the Aurora speller would work in the blog. I usually type it first in the email program to check spelling errors but, other then common ones, a typo on a guys name is an issue. So I usually try to make sure I didn't mistype that.

            And I have to deal with this stupid keyboard layout that makes typing a chore. Just the situation I'm presently in due to the economy and other issues. :pardon:

            #16 marko

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              Posted 17 February 2012 - 07:54 AM

              Scottar, you're missing the point here my friend - your BIOS does not need replacing, it needs flashed - and it actually stands for Basic Input Output System - it contains information required for your computer to POST (Power on Self Test) which includes checking to ensure the critical bits and pieces are present before going any further (i.e. hardware). As I said previously, it's a matter of identifying which BIOS make you have, preferably by referring to the manual or the manufacturers website, downloading the correct BIOS flash utility and this utility will then boot your computer for you (from a USB drive/floppy/etc), perform the flash and you should then be able to start your machine as normal. Forget about replacing the motherboard, it's not required - do some research and try to find the correct BIOS flash utility on the website for your computer, as it stands you're machine is unusable anyway, so you can't do any further damage!.

              The spell check feature will be updated on the next update hopefully, but this is out of our control as we rely on a third party script for our site which is developed by a company called Invision.
              Please remember that we have people from many different timezones on the site and if your post requires a reply it could take longer at some at some points because of this.

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              #17 James (Jim) Hillier

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                Posted 17 February 2012 - 01:32 PM

                Scottar, you do NOT need to be able to boot the "system" in order to flash BIOS if you utilize bootable media.

                Okay, here's an example: Say I have a machine where the system will not boot. I suspect it may be something to do with faulty RAM. So, how do I run memory diagnostic software if the system will not boot? Simple, I download something like Memtest86 which comes down as an ISO image. I burn that image to disc, boot the machine from that disc and then run the software to test the RAM.

                Same principle applies for your situation; locate and download the specific flash utility packaged in an image file. Burn that file to CD, boot from the CD you created and run the software.

                Flashing the BIOS via bootable media does not require a working OS, in fact you can flash the BIOS in this way even if there isn't any OS installed.
                Jim Hillier - Managing editor Daves Computer Tips.com

                #18 Scottar

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                  Posted 17 February 2012 - 09:07 PM

                  View Postmarko, on 17 February 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

                  Scottar, you're missing the point here my friend - your BIOS does not need replacing, it needs flashed - and it actually stands for Basic Input Output System - it contains information required for your computer to POST (Power on Self Test) which includes checking to ensure the critical bits and pieces are present before going any further (i.e. hardware). As I said previously, it's a matter of identifying which BIOS make you have, preferably by referring to the manual or the manufacturers website, downloading the correct BIOS flash utility and this utility will then boot your computer for you (from a USB drive/floppy/etc), perform the flash and you should then be able to start your machine as normal. Forget about replacing the motherboard, it's not required - do some research and try to find the correct BIOS flash utility on the website for your computer, as it stands you're machine is unusable anyway, so you can't do any further damage!.



                  Your missing the point!

                  If the computers 'uP' can't access the drives, the ports, the display, IT CAN'T RUN THE BIOS UTILITY WHICH I DOWNLOADED FROM TOSHIBA SUPPORT! BIOS is corrupted with gibberish so the uP is given gibberish! The BIOS probably got erased with out getting re-programmed.

                  On top of that I installed the boot CD ROM utility option, TOSHIBA's MATE!, and tried the boot from CD to reburn the BIOS. IT DIDN'T WORK! The uP could not access the system peripherals hence no action other then the drive being accessed but no data got processed. Henceforth, when the BIOS chip gets corrupted it has to be removed, reburned, replaced, or removed and replaced with a fresh one.

                  But that is an iffy procedure on a motherboard where the processor and BIOS and other chips are SOT23 sized SMT technology. It takes and experienced person who knows how to use either a hot gas solder gun or IR gun to do that operation. And I never herd of doing inplace programming on EPROMs on a board with external circuit loading. The EPROMs had to be removed and placed in a programing socket of an EPROM programing fixture. It's probably easier and more cost effective to replace the corrupted BIOS chip with a new one.

                  So yes the chip could be reprogrammed but the cost of doing so makes it ridiculous!. And most computer shops won't even mess with that for that reason. And trying to get specs on a Toshiba mother board is like trying to get specs on a defence classified weapon! Your not dealing with a Dell, Acer or HP.

                  I have identified the website aftermarket that seems to have the BIOS replacement but I can't identify it on the MB as the chips are not appropriately marked and several chips on the MB resemble the aftermarket BIOS chip replacement.

                  Do you grasp the problem now? I'm not working with a desktop system! If you happen to know of a website that would give me the details of the motherboard layout then please, pass it along mate! But your not going to find that in the user manual or manufacturer's site, especially if it's obsolete hardware. I even tried Toshiba's tech support and they replied, "Got service contract?, tough noggies" And then I would have to ship the laptop overseas so their technician can repair it as they aren't going to release that info to a user! May be same for a computer shop. It's better to get a new system then repair the old one- all things considered.

                  Or just bit the bullet and get the motherboard if one still exists and you really want the computer working again regardless of the costs. Despite some negatives of feature the HP has a well balanced system and I can run my browser and email program and run a game on top of that when I do so while listening to talk radio. :unknown:


                  #19 Scottar

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                    Posted 17 February 2012 - 09:08 PM

                    View PostJames (Jim) Hillier, on 17 February 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

                    Scottar, you do NOT need to be able to boot the "system" in order to flash BIOS if you utilize bootable media.

                    Okay, here's an example: Say I have a machine where the system will not boot. I suspect it may be something to do with faulty RAM. So, how do I run memory diagnostic software if the system will not boot? Simple, I download something like Memtest86 which comes down as an ISO image. I burn that image to disc, boot the machine from that disc and then run the software to test the RAM.

                    Same principle applies for your situation; locate and download the specific flash utility packaged in an image file. Burn that file to CD, boot from the CD you created and run the software.

                    Flashing the BIOS via bootable media does not require a working OS, in fact you can flash the BIOS in this way even if there isn't any OS installed.

                    The problem is not having an up and running OS, I'm not that stupid! The computer can't even boot off an install OEM disk! The computer has no BIOS to function off of, or 'boot strap program' from the 80's. And see my reply to Marko so that maybe you can give me a more intelligent reply! :boredom:

                    #20 marko

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                      Posted 17 February 2012 - 09:59 PM

                      OK, this is my last reply Scottar because I'm really not prepared to continue to help someone who is quite obviously intent on causing offence to the very people who are trying to help you, and you're a brave man insulting the owner of this site (i.e. ME) - if I were less of a gentleman I'd have hit the ban button by now.

                      I've already told you YOU DON'T NEED a BIOS to start a computer, YOU CAN download and use a self-booting program from the BIOS MANUFACTURERS website (of which there are only a few anyway, so finding the right one for your BIOS shouldn't be a major task) which will enable you to bring the laptop to a state where it is able to re-flash the BIOS. If you knew more about the BIOS system you would know a bootable OEM disk wouldn't be able to start because this still relies on the BIOS doing it's job in POST beforehand. A "bootable" or "recovery" disk however (like a BIOS flash utility) often contains the drivers needed to start and operate a floppy or USB drive, etc, for the purposes of an emergency boot, therefore your hardware would operate normally because of this - then again, you would know this right, because your "expert" would have told you this?. No, I didn't think so - they're just interested in the "easy" jobs, those that involve swapping one part with another and charging you handsomely, something which I can't normally abide, but in your case I really don't think it could happen to a nicer person!. Topic locked and the next time you decide to throw advice back in the face of those offering it - find somewhere else to do it cause it will be your last time here.
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