[marko]

I recently posted a similar topic to this on another site I frequent and the discussion was somewhat colourful to say the least!!.

Let's see what the community of FreewareBB think on this one. On the other site, I used YouTube and FaceBook as an example, rightly or wrongly, and although Facebook is really meant to be between friends it's relatively easy to find all manner of offensive comments through a chain of friends, or even family, people we wouldn't normally see everyday, or at all even and some we may not even know but have been associated with them through our contacts. One easy solution is to remove these people from FB, which solves that problem, but what about the other sites which are open to all?.

Youtube is one of those sites and although we obviously don't have to visit a site where comments are innapropriate it leaves me with a slightly bitter taste in my mouth when I think why should it be us that has to leave a site because we don't appreciate the severe hostility and often grossly offensive material that certain individuals feel the need to post?. Often these websites have a lot more to offer and for us to leave would deny us of an otherwise useful resource.

Isn't it a much more fitting action to stop, or at least, attempt to stop those individuals posting this offensive material?. Or, do we even have the right to ask this of a website?. Are we attempting to infringe on their rights by doing so?.

It's a bit of a minefield to say the least, but at the end of the day do we really feel the need to allow offensive material and comments of a derogatory nature to be on public display, can't people put their point across in a much more civil and diplomatic way?.

Interested to hear your thoughts on this one
Cheers
Marko

[google]

A bit of a hot potato this one marko. I mean, who's to say what's offensive or not, yeah yeah we know the usual run-of-the-mill racism and rude stuff but there comes a point where some will argue something isn't offensive and others will argue it is - that doesn't mean something probably doesn't need done just now with FB and YT, there are a lot of problems on these sites with language and conduct, I just don't think it's possible to find a "one cap fits all" type solution.
G

[marko]

It's definitely a hot potato G, and I must admit that although I was a definite "REMOVE ALL" voter on the other site, some of the conversations on the forums made me think a little more about it, in particular the fact, as you say also, not everyone will find the same stuff offensive. Some of the comments we can see online are just plain offensive and unwarrented, if we start with that stuff then at least it's a start of some kind I guess

[marko]

Just to add also, a while ago I had a little problem with my daughter, then 14 years of age - she was determined she wanted a Facebook account and despite the objections both my wife and I had it was obvious Facebook was the social networking site of the moment and that somehow, someway, she would probably get one as peer pressure can often dictate to younger people moreso than their parents. With that, I thought a little more about it and decided if she was going to do it then I would rather we were involved in it. My wife was still a little nervous of the fact but as I explained to her, she could use someone else's computer to set one up, get a free email account and she's on and chances are we wouldn't know anything about it!. So, instead, we set one up together and explained all the usual's to her about talking to people she didn't know, telling us if she received unwanted messages and so forth.

Things went great for a while, then I noticed a few swear words appear which I wasn't happy about, I let them go this time but then more appeared and thought it was about time I stepped in. As most other family members were also on FB I posted on her wall and told her to stop using such language or she would not have her FB for much longer. The embarrassment of her dad giving her a dressing down online seemed to do the trick, especially when her friends 'LOLd' at my statement

However, it wasn't long before I then realised I no longer had access to her FB. Strange I thought - a little bit of checking and it was obvious she had 'de-friended' me. Ahh, I thought, playing those games then?!. A quick edit of the router saw her MAC address banned and it took a nano-second for her to come charging into the living room asking what was wrong with the internet - "nothing" I said, "but if you don't want to give me access to your FB then I don't want to give you access to the internet that I pay for". A few shoulder shrugs and huffs and puffs later we were friends again on FB.

Moral of that story? - abuse and offense is caused by many people online, including, but obviously not limited to, the younger generation - adults should know better, but it's obvious some don't and we're limited to what we can do about them, but we can do our best to have our kids conduct themselves properly - problem is, a lot of parents don't take or make the time to check their kids activities online and as far as I can see, not a lot of kids have their parents on their social networking sites as friends!.

[CraftyBill]

marko, on 12 July 2011 - 02:37 PM, said:

I recently posted a similar topic to this on another site I frequent and the discussion was somewhat colourful to say the least!!.

Let's see what the community of FreewareBB think on this one. On the other site, I used YouTube and FaceBook as an example, rightly or wrongly, and although Facebook is really meant to be between friends it's relatively easy to find all manner of offensive comments through a chain of friends, or even family, people we wouldn't normally see everyday, or at all even and some we may not even know but have been associated with them through our contacts. One easy solution is to remove these people from FB, which solves that problem, but what about the other sites which are open to all?.

Youtube is one of those sites and although we obviously don't have to visit a site where comments are innapropriate it leaves me with a slightly bitter taste in my mouth when I think why should it be us that has to leave a site because we don't appreciate the severe hostility and often grossly offensive material that certain individuals feel the need to post?. Often these websites have a lot more to offer and for us to leave would deny us of an otherwise useful resource.

Isn't it a much more fitting action to stop, or at least, attempt to stop those individuals posting this offensive material?. Or, do we even have the right to ask this of a website?. Are we attempting to infringe on their rights by doing so?.

It's a bit of a minefield to say the least, but at the end of the day do we really feel the need to allow offensive material and comments of a derogatory nature to be on public display, can't people put their point across in a much more civil and diplomatic way?.

Interested to hear your thoughts on this one
Cheers
Marko

Perhaps a rating system (like the content on television) could prevent someone stumbling onto something offensive to them while allowing others with other views access to stronger or stranger materials. Still, I feel a line needs to be drawn somewhere.

[marko]

I think the problem with something like that Bill is it would still need some form of moderation, someone, somewhere would need to view the comment and give it a rating - YouTube already have a report button in place but most people (I know I did) would get fed up of having to constantly report offensive material, it's like a never-ending battle on some sites, YouTube being one of them. Would probably be much better if YouTube had some form of filter in place that flagged certain phrases or words and those found using them had the comment in question sent to a moderator for approval or rejection. Other problem with something like this is the amount of work it would probably take, the likes of YouTube wouldn't be prepared to fork out for moderators at this level.

Here on FreewareBB we have a workable system, whereby anyone with a post count of 10 or less are automatically moderated, no matter what - this probably weeds out around 50-60% of spam and innapropriate comments for us, purely because when some clown realises their post's aren't going to be approved they move on somewhere else that hasn't got moderation of this type. If someone is clever enough to make 10 decent post's and then start spamming and leaving innapropriate comments then it would firstly be rather unusual and secondly they would simply be banned anyway, including username, email and IP address.

Seems to work for us, so I really can't understand why YouTube and other popular sites can't use a similar system!.

[James (Jim) Hillier]

Quote

as peer pressure can often dictate to younger people moreso than their parents

Can, and does!!

I am definitely in the 'old fuddy duddy' class. I simply loath gratuitous swearing; that is, using swear words when it is totally unnecessary.

I mean, what is the point????

I visit one particular site, open to all ages, which allows avatars depicting pornographic scenes to be displayed. Some sites are getting so bad that children no longer need to stumble upon dedicated porno sites in order for them to view inappropriate material. Someone, somewhere down the line, has to take responsibility for protecting the innocents from unsolicited viewing of unsuitable content.

I also get really disgusted when reading through the comments on some of the popular sites, many of the exchanges are offensive in the extreme.

As for the argument that people will have differing opinions over what might be offensive or not; there is some truth in that. I would not find certain things personally offensive BUT what I do understand is that many people would, and I respect that. Plus, I am a mature adult, there are things I will read and images I will look at that I certainly wouldn't want my grand children seeing....nor any children for that matter.

It ain't rocket science and the rules are simple; no pornographic or lewd images, no swearing, no racist comments and no flaming. There is just no need for any of those elements, they serve absolutely no purpose. And there are methods already available that allow for controlling/censoring any such material.

The onus for all this MUST be on the head of the site administrator(s)/owner(s). I don't care what is costs or how much work it entails; they have a duty.

If that does not happen, then eventually government authorities are going to step in and that is the last thing we want or need, wholesale government censorship.

Quote

Perhaps a rating system (like the content on television) could prevent someone stumbling onto something offensive to them while allowing others with other views access to stronger or stranger materials

I do like that idea, content based ratings. "G" pages could be opened by anyone immediately. "PG" and above rated pages could initially open to a ratings page displaying the applicable rating and reasons why. The visitor could then read through what type of content has been flagged and decide whether or not to continue on. And the site would not be credited for any traffic which declined.

Because they would not wish to limit numbers of visitors, that would force traffic hungry site owners into controlling content.

Only possible hindrance I can see is that, for full effect, the system would need to be adopted globally and require overseeing. Achieving universal acceptance might just be a goal too far.

[marko]

I've actually had to withdraw from the discussion on the other site, just going round and round in circles trying to get my point across - I can appreciate and even sometimes agree with some of the views over there, but it's just like "nope, anyone should be allowed to say anything" attitiude that has just freaked me to a point where I can see no further good coming from the debate.

I believe in free speech but not to the detriment of someone else, and by that I mean if someone feel's they have the right to throw abuse at someone in the name of "free speech" then sorry, I consider that to be wrong - we all have a responsibility in life, to ourselves, to our families and to everyone else our lives touch. That responsibility to me, is really to treat others how they treat me, if someone want's to be unecessarily rude or aggresive to me, chances are I'll be rude and aggresive back to them or walk away - doesn't get away from the fact that person had no right in the first place to act that way. I like to think I'm always polite and courteous and so people really don't have any reason to be rude or aggresive - if I thought I was, I'd apologise.

I'm really not sure where the mentality comes into play when people consider "free speech" as a ticket to say whatever they feel, online or otherwise.

Most of the points you've raised above Jim, reflect that of mine over on the other site - however it just wasn't sinking in over there!!

[James (Jim) Hillier]

"Freedom of speech".....yes, that often used excuse for vulgarity and plain bad manners.

In my opinion; one should be able to get one's point across using plain, civilised language. Those that can't do that, or refuse to do that, have absolutely no respect at all for others, and that is a two way street.....as ye sow, so shall ye reap!

That's how these inane and offensive flaming sessions get started in the first place.

There is never any excuse for rudeness. Using the 'Freedom of speech' argument is not a viable excuse, it's a cover up for their inadequacies.

Marko, can you PM me a link to the site you are referring to please mate.

Cheers....Jim

[marko]

It's actually Invision Forums Jim, but it's only accessible to site owners with a valid license I'm afraid mate

[James (Jim) Hillier]

Oh okay mate. Shame.

[marko]

..... and now the topic has became locked because of another comment from someone else, strange really when people argue about freedom of speech and then a topic becomes locked because of, well, someone's comments!. As I've said, freedom of speech does not include the right to be abusive or offensive to anyone, the fact Invision have now locked that topic proves my point really.

[James (Jim) Hillier]

Quote

the fact Invision have now locked that topic proves my point really

Yep!!

[jjj]

Interesting topic!
Whatever degree of moderation used on FBB just continue, as it seems to work well.
I agree fully with the concept of free speech and everyone should be able to say exactly what they want no matter what - but can you
hurry up and delete that reply on the 15 July in HOW TO DOWNLOAD.

[James (Jim) Hillier]

Oops, sorry jjj...on it now!

Thanks.....Jim

[marko]

Yep, sorry about that guys, read your post jjj but somehow totally missed the fact there was an actual post that required deletion!!. On it now
Marko