16 replies to this topic

[James (Jim) Hillier]

Hey jjj - We well and truly appreciate the developers point of view, nobody denies the right for developers to earn a buck for their efforts - most, if not all, of any revenue derived will generally go toward further development anyway. If that's what it takes to keep freeware free then I guess it could be described as a 'necessary evil'. It's the manner in which they go about it which often causes concern: if a developer practices full disclosure and is open and honest about any bundled extras, PLUS applies a system of opt-in - we have absolutely no problem with that. Even an opt-out system under the aforementioned circumstances is acceptable - not optimal, but adequate nonetheless.

As with most things in life, there is a right way and a wrong way to go about things. If developers bundle in a fair and honest way - no problem.

[marko]

This is a rather complex situation and one which I can appreciate on both sides of the fence, as a developer and as a user. In one hand, we have the honest and genuine developer who wants to try and make a little back from the program without being "in the face" of the end-user, and then we have the end-user who ends up with a ton of garbage on their computer that they didn't want through add-ons in the installers.

Normally, I'd say toolbars, etc, should be OPT-IN rather than OPT-OUT, but that would never work because nobody in their right mind would willingly install a toolbar so the developers choose to make you opt-out and hope most won't see it - thus it gets installed.

The whole issue of freeware has evolved over the years and the actual definition of freeware is a complicated one. Some say freeware is basically software which is commercial but given away, normally with some restrictions and with the option to upgrade to a paid version to unlock all other features. Others say freeware is, or should be, fully functional software distributed free of any charge or limitations but is closed source (as opposed to open source) and because of this it's often abandoned relatively quickly by developers who can't monetize from it because it becomes too difficult to maintain themselves.

There is truth in all those statements but the fact remains that developers will most probably need to try and figure alternative, and more user friendly ways to monetize from their software or websites as users are becoming increasingly frustrated with the number of developers utilizing add-ons, toolbars and all other manner of third party software in their installers. As for those who force users to install this stuff, or those who knowingly include third party apps which are considered dangerous or even suspicious, then they will have a very short shelf life on most responsible download sites.

[James (Jim) Hillier]

Very true Marko!!

The opt-in vs opt-out question is a tricky one. Those who utilize the opt-out (which I feel would be the majority) could argue that they are doing the right thing by offering an option not to install the extras in the first place. You and I know it is not quite an simple as that, but it is still a compelling argument. Then there's the universally accepted rule of thumb for consumers, 'caveat emptor' - let the buyer beware.

There is no doubt we would all prefer for the opt-in system to be widely utilized but realistically that is just is not going to happen - The Serenity Prayer:

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

On the definition of freeware - we published an article here on FreewareBB about that very subject, way back in November 2010:
https://freewarebb.com/topic/60059-the-term-freeware-is-it-always-applicable-today/

[Gremlinn]

You know what i think would be cool? If they offered to install something that would be useful or fun to have..like a radio toolbar or had some kind of tool that i could find handy to have up there! I bet more would be inclined to actually install the bar..lol

[marko]

There are actually some pretty decent toolbars out there, just don't ask me which ones

[Claw]

I've got ,,,,,how about the "No Toolbar Toolbar"???? Everytime a toolbar attemps to install,,you just "click",,presto,,another one bites the dust,,it also warns you when a software includes a toolbar,so you can just "click"!!!!

[Gremlinn]

lol...i dunno; i have a stumble upon bar and i think that's really cool. Lots of places i wouldn't even know about..with a click!